Malaysia Veterinary Forum (Archive)

cheng_see · Joined: 29 May 2008 Posts: 10

Greetings Doc,

As a positive reinforcement trainer I am a NO NO to choke chain training.

I am disappointed that choke chain are still "recommended" by pet shops and by some "dog specialist"...

I would like to seek opinions (on the physical and medical point of view) and discussions from vets on this piece of information that I have extracted from Dr P......

This is an extract from an article about choke chain...

(http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/LA/hawgood1.htm)

[quote]The Veterinary Record in March 1999 showing evidence of injury to dogs. He listed:

Injured ocular vessels
Tracheal and oesophageal damage
Severely sprained necks
Cases of fainting
Transient foreleg paralysis
Recurrent laryngeal nerve paralysis
Hind leg ataxia

[Unquote]

As for emontional and mental effect of it.. well i have lots to say but let's not discuss these points here, that will be under another posting. :wink:

ChengSee
Certificate IV in Dog Behavioural Training
tel 012 2584315

amhwong · Joined: 05 May 2008 Posts: 15 Location: Kuala Lumpur

Hi Cheng See, good to see you here. I'm also curious to see how the outcome of this poll turns out. :)

acsyen · Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 89

I am not sure how effective the choke chain is as I hardly use it except for a few dogs. But most of the time the dog doesn't respond to it at all. I would prefer the pinch/spike collar if I need to use it. What are your opinions on this collar?

cheng_see · Joined: 29 May 2008 Posts: 10

Pinch/Prong/Spike Collars are a BIG NO NO !!!

They have negative effects on a dog’s behavior. First of all, these collars and chains induce pain (i repeat PAIN, try it on your own skin to see how it feels , for me it's OUCH!), which may lead to aggression.
They can "put fear" on the dog who will associate the pinch with whatever they are focusing on at that exact moment when the pain of the collar is delivered eg if the dog happens to look at a child when you jerk the pinch collar the dog will associate child=pain and guess what will likely to happen next when the dog see's a child? the dog is going to associate "i dont like children!".

Even if it's used by some trainers to train dogs , you can say the training is effective but remember the negative 'side effects' it will have on the dog.

Misuse of these devices can have a very bad effect on the dog. I will never never never recommend the use of these collars!!!!

acsyen · Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 89

Thank you for your feedback. I would agree that misuse of it will cause bad effects and only experienced people should be using it. IF used wrongly will definitely cause pain and also injury to the dog therefore a person has to use it the right way to avoid unnecessary pain or injuries to the dog. And children are a definite no no to handle dogs with behavior problems.

Dr Dunker · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 464 Location: Puchong,Selangor

Using choke chain or a pinch collar is like driving a car. Just because a few people who cant drive get themselves and others killed does not make cars a big no no. I do agree that in some cases choke chain have been known to cause tracheal problems.

THen again dogs with normal collars too do tend to develop skin problems under those collars and when these dogs pull on the leash, all the pressure will be at the ventral (bottom) neck....right where the trachea is. while choke chains are no better but at least the pressure is distributed around the neck as the dog pulls.

SO in the end i dont really think there is aright or a wrong when useing chokes and spike collars, as long as it works and your dog does not get injured, thats ok. In terms of health, again, it all boils down to the user and how well informed the user is. Everything have its pros and cons and dogs being dogs, as varied as they are. i dont think a single method of training would fit or be effective for every dog.

Dr Nat · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1834 Location: Klang Valley

I used be a supporter of choke chain. But then, I see the way some people use it, even professional dog trainers, and now I have to think twice. What you've listed there is also a valid point. But then again, these people, even if they use other types of collars, it would create just as much harm as choke chains. So, I guess it all boils down to the way its used.

I have a confession here, I still use it on my dogs though. And I find that dogs are less likely to escape with a choke chain on then with a collar.

All that said, for really hyper dogs that pulls a lot - I'd rather recommend them using the chest harnest instead.