Malaysia Veterinary Forum (Archive)

ashleywong · Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Tmn Desa, KL

lately i've been trying to get my cats to be full time indoor cats but it's difficult and they're wailing their heads and tails off to be let outdoors.

all this time, i compromised by letting out for short durations (once in the morning and once in the evening) or taking them out for short walks nearby). it is really fun when i take part in my cats' life (you should see the way they follow me single file).

however lately they are staying away longer and longer, it's like they are pushing the envelope to see how far they can go, and i can't do much about it once they're out and not ready to come home

i hv weighed the pros and cons of outdoor vs indoor cat and i think the safety of my cats being indoor far outweights their loss of "independence".

however i'm concerned that being cooped indoor all day after being used to outdoor may have adverse effect on my cats' mental well-being. i'm also concerned they might turned "stupid" and "dull" due to lack of stimulation.

i also hope those who are experienced will share with me the various means and steps of training an outdoor cat to be indoor cat and also ensuring they're happy being a convert.

thanks in advance

rgds

ashleywong · Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Tmn Desa, KL

i also want to add that i'm contemplating this step due to

1) increase number of strays in my area, especially around the street where my house is located

2) increasing traffic around my area and it doesn't help that my house is really close to the main streets

3) due to the encroaching by strays into my cats' territory (they even come to our back yard), i noticed that my cats are "forced" to take their rest/walk/play to the front of my house and therefore going nearer to the main street (just a hundred feet away or so).

4) i'm concerned being outdoors exposed to the streets and ferals will increase the risk of my cat catching a disease/fleas/mites/ticks or being injured in a fight with a feral or being hurt in an accident.

after considering all these, it is with reluctance that i decide to curtail their freedom.

of course after they are used to be being indoor, i hope to train them to accept a harness and leash so i can re-introduce outdoor to them via in a controlled setting - taking them out nearby on harness.

Dr Nat · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1834 Location: Klang Valley

I wish I also know how to keep my cat indoors. :)
Somehow they'll manage to find a broken window pane to go out through.

One of the best way = get them neutered. Earlier the better. As early as 8 weeks old even.

Other than that, I'd say provide them with lots of entertainment. Boxes for them to hide. Steps for them to climb. Every now and then change it, so it stimulates their mind. Device up something so that they could chase - like dangle feathers on a string. Just remember to keep changing their play things around so it doesn't remain the same old boring stuff. Also will prevent them getting "stupid" and "dull" (though they actually cannot be more stupid - just bored).

I guess the beginning is always the hardest. But if you're bringing them on a leash outside, remember to keep their vaccinations up to date.

ashleywong · Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Tmn Desa, KL

hi Dr Nat

actually my cats are neutered/castrated. i do recognise the importance of keeping them stimulated if i am to keep them indoors otherwise they'd be bored. sometimes i'm quite tired when i return from work and just don't hv the energy to play with them. when this happens, i feel guilty.

however i also recognise that my cats seem to respond to "discipline via behavioural conditiong", as such, i'm embarking on a new experiment - to keep them indoor throughout the night but to let them out for a short stretch between 6.45am to 7.30am. through experiment of "timing" i noticed that if i let them out after dawn, they have less inclination to prowl and stray far - however if i let them out from dusk onwards, the inclination to prowl and stray father is stronger. not sure whether this is coincidence or exhibited behavioural trait of a cat.

my concern is that if i keep them indoor for a prolonged period, i've have 3 cats with behavioural problem and i'd be in big trouble,

what do you think about this? hv you ever heard of it from anyone or observe if yourself?

btw, how many cats do you have? this picture of your cat, it reminds me of my Coco.

thx for your reply

Dr Nat · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1834 Location: Klang Valley

What do you mean your cats have behavioural problem?

Actually, it is an option to keep them in at night. Night is when cats are most active (and most mischievious), so keeping them in at night is logical. In fact, some places, like Australia, it is in the law that cat owners must keep their cats in at night.

Keeping them stimulated doesn't mean you have to play with them everyday. As long as they have things to play with or places to hide or something to chase, it will keep them stimulated. Browse through the web for interesting ideas! For example, some people build small walkways high up that runs all around the house. There are also large outdoor cage that is linked to indoors - so the cat got a choice to go outdoors or stay inside, but they're still confined to your home. Like these:
http://www.catsofaustralia.com/cat-enclosures.htm
http://www.thecatconnection.com/news_2005/mar05/cat_house.html

ashleywong · Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Tmn Desa, KL

hi dr nat

thanks for taking the time to share such valuable information.

first thing first, to clarify on cat behavorial problem. by this i mean that the cat's boredom and lack of stimulation, be it physical and mental, it would translate into behaviour that (would seem normal for the cat) but perceived as abnormal, unusual, out of the ordinary, or "shocking" for us.

it's been like almost a month already since i started embarking on my "indoor initiative". during the initial days and even weeks, my cats would start wailing (all three of them in concert) every night, at 2am, 3am 4am 5am, 6am, and 6.30am. it went on for more than 2 weeks (that was when i really kept them indoor and never gave them a chance to escape). aside from this, they would suddenly grabbed our hand and started scratching us or biting us (and it really hurt). then there were days when they launched a "hunger strike" and refused to touch their food. also they would start "attacking" our furniture and start to shred which furniture is nearest to them, in the morning when we came downstairs, all the cushions would be scattered on to the floor, whatever items we left on the table top would be also on the floor, whatever pieces of paper left out would be shredded in the morning , also show more aggression towards each other and in a way, one of them started avoiding the litter box and did all on our kitchen sink and floor mat!

the most difficult for me was being woken up every hour on the dot from 12am until 6.30am in the morning. i almost made two major mistakes at work due to sleep debt. we had to close all doors and windows in the house making it stuffy and stale especially during the recent hot weather.

in the end, i splurged out on two cat trees! not exactly the most creative idea of the century but hey it worked. i bought two cat trees, one for upstairs and one for downstairs, one cat tunnel and the vendor threw in a bag of cat nip a small little plastic ball containing cat nip plus a small little squeaky mouse. on top of that, i bought an extra wand-feather toy, two furry mouse toys, one which moves upon being wound up, another squeaks and chirps when activated.

i'm happy to report that my cats had finally deemed to use the cat trees for their play activity and exercise (and they're as toned and trimmed as ever) . there was a scary beginning when nicky fell down from the more than 6ft high cat tree. i rushed him to the clinic as he walked with a slight limp but the vet did a thorough check on him and pronounced him fit. nicky has learned how to work with his own wieght (all 6kg of it) and climbed properly as a cat should be. they use it for their scratching post as well (and my furniture thanked me from the bottom of their hearts).

no more bitting us and scratching us,no more aggression towards each other (but they learned some wrestling moves from watching the wrestling show on tv) but still some litter avoidance problem. coco and anna still use their sink as their toilet and i found out the reason why - there is a cat prowling outside our house and coco and anna were marking their territory inside.

to solve this problem i provide them with two litter tray and scrupulously keep them clean all the time, and i also regularly clean and wash my compound and back yard.

there have been a few incidents of "escape from azkaban" as well as "breakout from alcatraz", the recent being last night but it sort of work out a bit for all of us in the house. i installed mosquito netting on the openings but they found out that if the magnetic strip open outward, they could just push it open and if the magnetic strip opens inward,t hey could jsut pull it down. that was the modus operandi.

i'm still cracking my brain on how to solve that particulary problem but...i'm sure i'll get in front of the cats.

to all who have been following this thread, pls stay tune and thanks for rooting for me.

i found out this morning who that stray cat is who's been prowling my house - it's my Ginger boy. he went away one day about almost 4 months ago and now he's back. but he doesn't seem to remember us and is afraid but he kept coming to our backyard to play. i only saw him this morning and i left out food for him, - i'll keep you all posted on ginger's progress in another thread.

to dr nat, thanks for the urls, i'll keep this in mind when i move out next time, for now the house is not mine so i can't make too "drastic" a change.

thx

Dr Nat · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1834 Location: Klang Valley

Well, those URLs are just showing you examples of what you can do for your cats, although a bit idealistic. But its just to show that being indoor/outdoor does not have to be so black/white.

Anyway, sounds like your cats can certainly kick up a fuss!! hahah... but actually, those are exactly the "behavioural" problems associated with boredom - vocalising, aggressiveness, excessive grooming, destroying furniture, inappropriate elimination, refusal to eat, overeating, pacing, chasing shadows, etc etc. Read more about cat boredom here: http://searchwarp.com/swa263831.htm

Actually, in many animals that get bored, they end up with repititive behaviour (called stereotypy). For example, pacing in the cage. Now, how many times have we seen that in zoos?

Speaking of indoor cats, I just found something interesting. One of the conditions when adopting cats at some shelters in the UK, is that the owner cannot keep the cat totally indoors. Yes, they're promoting outdoor cats. But then again, many people are more responsible (not all though) and get their cats tested for diseases such as FIV and FeLV - and keeping those infected cats indoors so they wont be able to infect other cats.

Your Ginger is another interesting story. Do keep up us informed of his progress. Also, guess it shows that cats recognise their territory better than they recognise their owners. That is why a lot of cats freak out in new places, although the owners are around (like in a vet's clinic!).

ashleywong · Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Tmn Desa, KL

dear dr nat

just to update (i'm also posting this under lost and adoption category),

i saw ginger this morning. apparently he was outside in my backyard and i didn't even know until he let out a yeow in respond to his siblings' yeowling (they were harrassing me to let them out as usual).

when i opened the window, i saw him sitting them calmly but when he spied me he rushed away only to stop when i called out to him but he doesn't seem to recognise me that much. i wonder why.

my cats' reaction is strange too - they got all puffed up and a bit scared!

please wish me luck in trying to get ginger to come home.

dr nat, could you please tell me more about cats ability to recognise their location better than owner? anyway to jog his memory on us?

Dr Nat · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1834 Location: Klang Valley

Maybe "recognise" is the wrong word I used. I meant that cats are more comfortable in an environment that they know, whereas compared to dogs, they are more comfortable being beside a person that they know.

In terms of real recognition of people, I dont know. But I know how you feel. I used to feed a cat before I went to college, and when I returned, it was like a different cat. I only hope my own cats are not like that when I go home later on...

ashleywong · Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Tmn Desa, KL

hi all

just some notes to add.

i've taken steps to "fortify" my house following two escapes from azkaban episode, last friday and last saturday. both coco and anna were indeed resource and creative if nothing and they never let up their determination to find a way out.

nicky was different. he settled down to being indoor (but he won't mind escaping if there's opp) and being our "king of our hearts". he only required us to "pamper" him all the time.

anyway, i created an wooden frame with aluminium mesh to cover both wet kitchen window and adjusted it so it can be anchored firmly and yet allow us to open and shut the lourve windows with "relative" ease. with this project completed, we can now afford to open all kitchen windows without worry about our precious princesses and prince escaping again.

oh,it was indeed precious sight to see my kittens/cats trying to pit their wits against us and appraising the frames for signs of weakenss.

but last night belonged to us humans we heave a collective sigh of relief and settled to the 1st evening of watching tv with the windows and doors opened with fresh air flowing through the house!

(give me five!)

next project will be to 1) afix complete wire mesh across the backdoor b) afix magnetic mosquito mesh across front doors and windows ala D-I-Y. i'll try to finish it this coming weekend.

now that ginger has returned (we hope to persuade him to come back into our home and lives again), our fortress needs to be secured adequately.

anna learned how to climb a ladder this morning - so she can renew her effort to find a way out and to catch more lizards.

cats and kittens, they are priceless, aren't they?

Dr Nat · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1834 Location: Klang Valley

Hey... (high five)...
Show us some pics of your DIY stuff. Perhaps I myself should do so for my cats too.

ashleywong · Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Tmn Desa, KL

hi all

guess what? in the contest of intelligence between human and cats, cat won 1-0.

coco just learned how to open the lourve windows even though i keeped it locked down. the first time it happened, she triggered the alarm and we all got a scare as we thought we have intruder in the house. and it didn't help that she ran to us looking scared so we thought there were intruders in the house.

after it happened a few times, we become outcasts to our neighborus and security guards for giving so many false alarms to the extent that i myself have to tell them that i'm "testing" the alarm "even at funny hours of the night".

the wooden frame i made held up to its job and prevented the cats from escaping but it is located at the wet kitchen area. coco opened the window at the dry kitchen area to go out to the wet kitchen area and so triggered the movement sensor.

i still don't know how to solve this latest problem. it has gotten to the point where when the alarm triggered, the guards will say "oh, it's their cats". until one day, when the alarm triggered due to attempted break-in yet the guards ascribed it to our cats. i gave them a dressing down then.

now the guards came to check on our house regularly but i don't know many more false alarms they can stomach.

neither can i as being regulary awaken up at between 4am - 5am in the morning is not fun.

any suggestions from anyone? dr nat? dr han? anybody? :-(

Dr Dunker · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 464 Location: Puchong,Selangor

Hahahaha, "testing alarm" it seems. I turned my home into a giant bird cage using green plastic wire netting used in chicken coops (1cm holes). Works so far, but my cat, Bento Potato is never the type to jump out of windows anyway due to malformation of legs. Still to be safe i just wrap every window with wire mesh using cable-ties.

ashleywong · Joined: 25 Sep 2007 Posts: 80 Location: Tmn Desa, KL

hi dr dunker

thanks for sharing your story on your cats. it's such a relief to me that i'm not the only person who's wrapping up her house in mesh wires all because of her cat. however i use aluminium because it's tougher and wont' be slashed easily by cat claws. we installed mosquito netting around our house (some sort of plastic) and cost us an arm and a leg and my cats slashed the mesh in no time at all. now i have to hunt for the same type of mesh to patch up all the holes.

i ran out of green cable-ties, i used rafia string instead - actually much cheaper but the end-result looks like ...you know.. ugly.

you're right, never underestimate a cat. nicky seldom bestir himself to try to break out of alcatraz because he's type that think, if the door is lock, means the door is lock, but this morning is a first. no wonder the rest of them got ringside seats atop the fridge (which is besides the door) and cheered him on. he took on the herculean task of scaling up the door grill,mesh and all. until he got to the top and realised there's no escape so he came down again. i got the satisfaction of telling him "i told you so".

i'm still thinking of a way and i'll keep you all posted.

in the mean while cats - 1 human - 0!

Dr Dunker · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 464 Location: Puchong,Selangor

What my ex-housemates did with their 3 cats was to giv them a room and place all their toys and bed and stuff there. so they only turned 1 room into a cat cage. but now that they are living in another house and have 8 cats i think they did the same thing...n still these monstars can get out. One wonders how these cats with NO opposible thumbs open windows some 5 year old humans find problems with. So even the best of plans comes undone in face of a determined cat...your 1-0 score is still behind my 43-3 score. Bento have ran out 43 times and in only 3 times did i managed to get him (this is a cat with two malformed front legs mind you). but if my GF asks i tell her he never runs out...makes me look less moronic.