Malaysia Veterinary Forum (Archive)

gus-gus · Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 34

Hi. Does anyone know if there are dog psychologists in Malaysia?

The reason I ask is because I need the help of one. Or perhaps someone here can help me.

I have a basset hound living with me at the moment. He is 6 years old and has been with me for the last 5 or 6 months.

He came to live with me after his owner asked if he (the basset) could stay with me for three months while the renovations on her new house were being completed. He was, at the time that she asked me, staying with another friend who was moving into an apartment and not able to take the dog to the new apartment. My friend had got the basset, Buster, when he was a puppy and she had him with her for three years. While waiting for her house to be completed, he went to live with the friend who then moved into the apartment, another three years.

About a month after Buster came to stay with me, my friend said that she was selling her house and not able to take Buster back and would I please help her get him adopted. I told her I would try. I also told her that I definitely could not keep him myself because I already have four dogs. In the meantime, because he was getting along ok with my dogs and worrying for his emotional stability from moving from home to home, I agreed to let me stay with me while looking for a permanant home for him.

I managed to find him a new home but the adoption lasted less than two hours before I was called to remove him because he had bitten the teenage son of his adoptive family. Since then, I have had no success finding him a home because nobody seems to want 6 year old basset hounds.

Finally, my father said I should keep Buster because he is an alert dog and a good deterrant to burglars. Which he is.

The problem is that Buster is aggressive and unpredictable. On the first night that he arrived, he snapped at me. This was because I had tried to push him into the house when he wouldn't go in. Buster was an outdoor dog and not accustomed to being indoors so he was reluctant to go in. I recognised it was my mistake so I reprimanded him and let it pass.

Over the next few weeks, I got to know him better and realised that he was a dominant dog. He will growl and snap if he doesn't get his own way or if he is caught doing something that he shouldn't - like digging through the dustbin. And he obviously knows he shouldn't be digging in the bin. He was fine with my male chihuahua and would let the chihuahua do almost anything to him. With my female schnauzer and male westie though, it was a different story - he would intimidate them by sleeping by the doorway to the bedrooms and growl when they tried to get past into the rooms. Being good natured dogs, they wouldn't retaliate but just wait until he moved away.

When Buster got into a very deep sleep and anyone walked past him, he go into a frenzy, growling and snapping. We would have to shout at him sharply to get him to quieten down. Almost immediately that he stopped snapping, he would go back to being his placid self.

It is with humans that he is unpredictable. He is fine with visitors - very warm and friendly and affectionate - but with my sister and me, he will try and dominate us. We realise this so we don't let him get away with it but sometimes, he was push his luck and growl and snap at us. We smack him and ignore him for a few hours and this usually works for a few days - he's sweet natured and affectionate towards us - then he starts his nonsense again. He has, so far, been fine with my mother - he is always happy to see her when she comes over (almost everyday) and never shown her any bad temper. We are the people he sees the most consistently.

He is a bit of a barker but over time, by being firm with him he has become better behaved and will usually stop after being told to be quiet. If he is barking at the front gate, he would let me put the lead on his choke chain and lead him into the house. In fact, he would become quite passive once I clipped the lead on.

He is not house trained which means a lot of cleaning up after him but I try to lead him outdoors twice a day to pee and poo and my back garden door is left open during the day for all the dogs to go out. I try to be consistent in house training Buster but I don't always catch him messing so if he's already done it, I just clear it.

My sister works irregular long hours. I work partially from home and have fairly regular hours. Generally the dogs are never left alone for more than three hours a day on average. A few weeks ago, my hours became irregular because I started a course. He began to act up again - he would go into a barking frenzy at the front gate and snap at us when we tried to get him indoors. One night, he came up to me for some affectionate ear tickling but while I was tickling his ears, he suddenly snapped at me, got my left wrist, leaving pressure bruises. No tear wounds or serious bleeding because I am accustomed to dog bites (!!) and have learnt to overcome the natural reflex to jerk my hand out of a dog's mouth; waiting for a release of jaw pressure before pulling my hand away.

During the time that I was on my course (about ten days), Buster would bark when I got home - usually, he would be totally quiet. Rude almost in the way that he would ignore my sister's or my return. While my other dogs would jump and get excited when we got home, he just would lie there (sometimes on his back, short legs in the air) and look at us.

I realised that my hours were unsettling him and spent the entire weekend at home. Within a few days of resuming my regular shedule, Buster went back to his old habit of ignoring us when we came home. While it used to bother us before that he was so nonchalent about our return, we realised that his silence was a general indicator of his emotional well-being.

Usually, when I tickle Buster's ears, chin and cheeks, he really enjoys it. I usually give him a tickle when I walk past him in the course of the day and most nights spend at least 15 mins massaging his ears and giving him belly rubs. Sometimes, during the day, when I stop to pet him I see his lips draw back in a silent growl. When I see this, I tell him off and walk off. I then ignore him.

I treat him the same as my other dogs except that he is not allowed to get on my bed because he has dominance issues. When he has climbed on my bed and I have told him to get off, he has got off the bed as told though he makes grumbling noises. In fact, I pay him more attention than I do the other dogs - to the point that I am surprised that they don't resent him for it.

Today, when I stopped to tickle him, he suddenly snapped at my right hand. He went into a frenzy, shaking my hand in his mouth like he was trying to kill it. He was growling and snapping but never quite loosening his grip so that I could extract me hand. I was trying to find something to hit him with to get him to release my hand but realised that my movements were making him even more ferocious so I finally kept still and after 10 secs of near stillness, he let go of my hand. I still have my hand but it is covered in scratches, bruises and a long tear on my long finger from when I had to make a final desperate wrench to get my hand away - just my fingers were left in his jaws and I didn't want to lose them to the next chomp. My fingers are stiff and shaking but I don't think there is any serious damage.

When I sat down on a chair, Buster came up and sat by me as though contrite but I ignored him. I'm just too exhausted and relieved not to have suffered terrible wounds to even beat him.

I have decided to tell his owner to take Buster away. However, I don't want to just walk away from Buster and his obvious emotional problems. I'm at a loss as to what to do. I have years of experience with dogs and dog discipline but I don't seem to have made any headway with him. He has had an unsettling time with his home changes and I am sure that has contributed to his unpredictable behaviour. I also suspect that while living in his previous home. he was not disciplined in anyway for bad behaviour and has got accustomed to getting away with bad behaviour by intimidating people. The thing is that no one else is going to put up with him behaving like that and I'm sure he will eventually be put to sleep as an aggressive dog. It would be a terrible thing if there is any chance that he can helped.

Can anyone offer any help?

Dr Nat · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1834 Location: Klang Valley

Looking at this medically, there is a chance for him to have a ear infection. He might like the the occasional ear tickle, but at times it can hurt especially as you touch the more sensitive part. And basset hounds are known to have ear problems. Have you had his ears checked?

Non-medically, you could try not to tickle his ears since he can go into attack mode during ear tickles. Pet him in other places. Or is that giving the same problem too?

Sorry I cant help more.

p.s. there's a good website I found on dog aggression. The link is somewhere in the forum.

scotcha · Joined: 09 May 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Penang

Hiya there Gus Gus,
I m new to this site and it has been a while since your last post. But your description of the behavioral problem of your Basset hound is what i am going thru with my recently adopted 3 yr old Silky.
Have you found a solution? Would appreciate it if you can share cos i am at my wits end. I dont think it is fair to rehome Mikiyeoh and transfer the problems. And i feel SHE has decided to stay with me..after 2 failed attempt to rehome her. And i have come to love her very much.

gus-gus · Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 34

Dr Nat wrote: Looking at this medically, there is a chance for him to have a ear infection. He might like the the occasional ear tickle, but at times it can hurt especially as you touch the more sensitive part. And basset hounds are known to have ear problems. Have you had his ears checked?

Non-medically, you could try not to tickle his ears since he can go into attack mode during ear tickles. Pet him in other places. Or is that giving the same problem too?

Sorry I cant help more.

p.s. there's a good website I found on dog aggression. The link is somewhere in the forum.

Thank you for your response that I have only just seen because I didn't know that my post had received a reply.

Firstly, the dog is no longer living with me. I asked his owner to take him away because I did not feel safe with the dog. At 50kg, he is more than I can handle in the event that he has another episode. The last time, my other dogs had tried to intervene. However, they are all less than 20lbs in weight, I was rather concerned that if Buster turned his attention to them, there really would be a blood bath. Furthermore, as I am alone most of the time, if there were serious injury, there was the possibility that I would not be able to get help.

Sadly, the owner refuses to take responsibility for the welfare of the dog - rather than come and collect the dog herself, she asked someone else, a dog trainer/ boarder, to come and take the dog away.

I made it a point to take the time to talk to the dog boarder and ask her about her own pet situation before letting her take the dog away. I was honest with her that the reason why I no longer wanted Buster living with me was because of his unpredictable behaviour - which the owner had failed to mention to her. She had several dogs of her own including two german shepherds who followed her around the house all the time. Furthermore, she didn't live alone.

Since then, we have remained in touch and Buster has exhibited the same aggressive behaviour with her as he did with me. However, he has not actually attacked her or anyone of her household.

With regard to Buster's ears, he did not have an ear infection or any other ailment that would cause physical discomfort. In the 6 months that he lived with me, he went to the vet several times - to be neutered and have the stitches removed, to have his teeth cleaned, his nails cut and a yeast infection on his skin. Each time, his ears were checked as a matter of course, and cleaned.

I considered all possible physical ailments first as the cause of his aggressive behaviour before coming to the conclusion that it was not physical but psychological/ emotional.

I was sad to see him go. I went to see him to see how he was doing at the boarder's. He was fine. He was happy to see me and acted towards me like he did with visitors at my house - friendly and charming.

Incidentally, his owner has never gone to visit him at the boarder's. And in the 6 months he lived with me, she only came to see him once.

gus-gus · Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 34

scotcha wrote: Hiya there Gus Gus,
I m new to this site and it has been a while since your last post. But your description of the behavioral problem of your Basset hound is what i am going thru with my recently adopted 3 yr old Silky.
Have you found a solution? Would appreciate it if you can share cos i am at my wits end. I dont think it is fair to rehome Mikiyeoh and transfer the problems. And i feel SHE has decided to stay with me..after 2 failed attempt to rehome her. And i have come to love her very much.

As you can see from my above post, I did not find a solution to Buster's problems and he is no longer living with me.

I have an understanding of your situation as well as your concerns. One point that makes your situation with Mikiyeoh easier than mine with Buster is that Mikiyeoh is a much smaller dog and less able to inflict the level of damage that Buster can. Buster is 50kg and Mikiyeoh should be no more than 10lbs. That is a fraction of the size and definitely less to cope with in a situation.

I have had some prior experience of temperamental dogs and the size of the dog is a huge factor.

I've sent you an PM. Pls contact me - maybe I can help you. If I can't, I'll give you the contact details of a few people who might be able to.

acsyen · Joined: 10 Jan 2008 Posts: 94

I know of a behavior correctal specialist in KL and also in Pg let me know if you want it.

scotcha · Joined: 09 May 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Penang

Thanks for the concern and offers of help, gus-gus and acsyen.

My problem as gus-gus said, is not terrribly serious. Controllable.
I have assessed that Mikiyeoh's disposition is psychological. I understand silky terrier to be a human oriented dog needing constant social contact. The previous owner kept her alone during working hours, maybe only seeing her in the evenings. Or perhaps it is because she was never trained and disipline. Now she behaves like a spoilt brat.

A characteristic of a silky is that she is terribly possessive about things. Being so intelligent, i sometimes think she is psychic. Whatever i begin doing eg laptop, book, pillows Mikiyeoh will 'jom' it. I am 'not allowed' to get within a foot of whatever she guards, else she will launch an attack on me and that has happened many a time. I have developed an unconscious phobia esp at nite when i get down from my bed,her sleep is disturbed she growls and runs to my legs and bites! Of cos i should let her sleep outside but i want her in the room.

I have read up on this breed and one book recommend just ignoring her when she acts up. I have tried it and think it is perhaps effective. I am also working towards getting her to trust me as i believe her problem stems from insecurity at being left alone in her early years. But then perhaps it is the 'calming' tablets i am feeding her (like Prozac for humans)

Acsyen, perhaps you can give me the canine psychologist contact in Penang and i can keep it for just in case?

gus-gus · Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 34

Hi Scotcha, I think you misunderstood my meaning - the problem with your dog is serious but not impossible for you to cope with. The reason being that your dog is a smaller dog than the basset hound and it's not so easy for Mikiyeoh to overpower you and maim you in the event that she attacks you. An aggressive dog is a serious problem because it is a danger to people. I have a lot of experience with dogs so it was especially difficult for me that I was unable to help Buster with his emotional issues.

I completely understand your phobia about accidentally coming into contact with her at night in case she snaps because I had a dog like that too!! The Gus-Gus whose name I use as my nick! I had Gus-Gus for almost 14 years and he was vicious if we touched him accidentally at night in our sleep. My sister used to sleep with her feet inside a pillow case with a big pillow on top of her toes because she was so scared that she would lose her toes to Gus one night.

There were several nights in which the household was woken up by the sound of ferocious snapping followed by a howl of agonising pain because Gus had snapped at the person he had slept with that night. And despite all this, we still had him to sleep with us (we actually felt honoured if our bed was the one he chose to grace that night) and we all loved him to bits. Incidentally, Gus was a westie.

I have another westie now and he is so different from Gus. Monty is now 3 1/2 and for the first two YEARS that we had him, if any of us touched Monty in our sleep, our first reaction was to wake up with a jump and retract our extremities and wait with a sinking heart for the vicious snap that would follow!!

Mikiyeoh is a dominant dog by nature and her possessiveness over your belongings stems from a desire to dominate you by preventing you access to your things as well as attention seeking because she craves attention from you.

Because her previous owner was not around for much of the day, the chances are good that when the owner got home, the owner didn't discipline her when she misbehaved. Either too tired to or feeling to guilty to or not realising that Mikiyeoh's behaviour should be checked. This would have reinforced in Mikiyeoh that her behaviour was acceptable. Sadly, when you take on a rehomed dog, you also take on their bad habits. But helping a rehomed dog feel secure and loved and overcoming those bad habits is very rewarding. I currently have two dogs for whom I am not their first owner. Both need more attention than my other two dogs but fortunately they are both good natured and have no dominance issues so it is easier to cope with their constant need for reassurance.

At three, with patience and consistency, there is still a good chance for you to overcome Mikiyeoh's behaviour.

First, have set times in a day when you give her your full attention so that she knows that she has your attention. A good time of day to start is in the morning. Use this time to take her for a walk, give her breakfast, groom her and just talk to her. Try and give her a full half an hour. Beware of playing games as these usually involve an element of dominance and you don't want to trigger off her dominant streak. Another good time is at night before you send her to sleep in her cage (see below point). If you can, take her for another walk. That should tire her out so that she will just sleep in the cage rather than make a fuss is she is still alert.

The snapping at night problem. Sleeping on the bed with you should be a privilege for Mikiyeoh, not a right. As a first step, don't let her sleep on the bed with you. Instead, get a small cage and put her in the cage at night to sleep. I understand your desire to have her in the room with you so have the cage in your room. Put Mikiyeoh in at night before you go to bed. Give her a treat in the cage so she doesn't associate going in for the night as a punishment. If she barks and protests, tell her gently but firmly, "No!". If she persists, move the cage out of your room and out of earshot so that you can get a good night sleep without hearing her whining and barking.

Let Mikiyeoh sleep in the cage for a few weeks until she accepts the cage as her place to sleep at night.

Don't let her get on to your bed in the day time either. If she goes on to the bed, tell her to get off and lock her out of the room. That is your way of asserting your dominance over her.

Then you can move to the next phase which is when you don't latch the gate of the cage so that she is free to come out of the cage at night. If she comes on to your bed, let her but don't pay her special attention. If she snaps at you in the middle of the night, tell her "No!" and put her in the cage immediately and latch the gate and go back to sleep. Ignore her. If she starts barking and protesting, move the cage out of the room like before, and go back to bed. Eventually Mikiyeoh will learn that snapping at you at night is not acceptable and she will stop. Remember, that Mikiyeoh is a very human oriented dog who does not like to be excluded. This process may take several weeks but persevere because Mikiyeoh is only three and there is a good ten years of her life ahead for you to enjoy with a sweet loving dog if you overcome her problems.

With regard to things like your pillow/ lap top/ book, make sure that you don't leave them where she has access to them to be possessive over. Should she manage to get hold of them and you think she won't let you have them, then get a treat, show it to her, put it in the cage and when she goes in, lock the cage.

Give her a treat or a chewy to keep her occupied while you work on your laptop or read your book. She has to understand that you have got "me" time too. Eventually, she will come to associate your "me" time as a time for her to get a treat and chewy and will stop trying to prevent you from doing what you want.

I hope these suggestions help. You can PM me if you need any clarification.

scotcha · Joined: 09 May 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Penang

Thanks for the suggestions gus-gus.

I will try the cage starting tonite. The previous owner caged Mikiyeoh but when i took her in she refuse to go into my smaller cage. I have never tried since.

When i get home, i put Mikiyeoh upstairs and walk Maya, a 6 month mongrel to the shops to get my dinner. After a bath, i spend quality time with Mikiyeoh, combing and talking to her altho she isnt used to combing. Earlier she used to growl and snap when i try combing out her matted hair but i had the groomer trim of so that i get to start afresh without the tangles. She accepts the combing now except for the hind legs, not sure whether she enjoys it but likes having her face wiped. She enjoys fetching games tho.

I have 3 cats as well and she chases them. I feel sorry for the cats that i dont have enough time for each of them.

gus-gus · Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 34

A good way to establish dominance over Mikiyeoh is to teach her to sit and stay and make her sit before you give her her dinner. If Mikiyeoh is food motivated (she responds to food as an incentive), then you can use that as a training tool to teach her how to shake hands, come when you call as well as walk to heel.

You have to show her that you are the boss. When you play fetch games with Mikiyeoh, who initiates play? Does she bring you the item to play with or are you the one who starts the game. It is essential that you be the one to initiate play as that is how you dominate her - she does not dictate when to play games. If you wants to play, ignore her and do something else instead. When she's distracted by something else, that is when you indicate that you want to play with her.

How does she interact with the other dog?

scotcha · Joined: 09 May 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Penang

Mikiyeoh follows sit,down,shake wait commands for food when i feed her treats. She usually listens and follows instructions like 'Upstairs'. Usually i initiate the games. I am trying to use the games to make her understand not to be possessive over an object, that i will throw and give it to her.

Currently i have no pressing problem except the nite leg snapping episodes.

Whenver my houseowner comes home once a month with her 10 yr Cocker, Casey that's when hell breaks lose. My silky doesnt know her size and place and attackes Casey. Poor Casey and i will have a hard time from my houseowner. Mikiyeoh also shows her dominance over my 6 mths old mongrel who rolls over in submission.