Malaysia Veterinary Forum (Archive)

HABBHI Agrofarm · Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 3

Dear Doctors,

I recently bought some kids and transported them from Alor Gajah to Batu Pahat. I observed that some of them were having running nose and were also coughing. When I pointed that to the breeder, he said that it was only a minor thing and it will cure in few days.

After about 2 days the same symptoms were still observed. Furthermore 2 of the kids became weak, could not walk, started isolating themselves and stopped eating. We tried to force feed them with milk but to not much success. We called JPH and they came to have a look and gave injection to some including the 2.

Unfortunately the 2 died on the 3rd days. and 2 other kids started exhibiting the same symptom. We again called JPH to conduct post postmortem to find out the cause of death. They came but did not conduct the post postmortem. Instead they gave more injections to the kids. The other 2 died the next day.

When we asked the JPH guy, we were told it is maybe due to change of environment and food.

My question:

1. I wonder is it possible that this problem could have started from the farm where we collected the kids from?
2. I have read some article about pneumonia and some of the symptoms matched the ones exhibited by the kids. Is it possible that it was pneumonia?
3. What could have been done differently so that the kids would have had better chance of surviving?

I would appreciate comment and advise on this unpleasant experience of mine.

Kindest regards,

HABBHI Agrofarm

Dr HanMRCVS · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 557 Location: Johor Bahru

hi there and welcome to our simple forum. while i may not be the best person to advise you in regards of your farm matter as i have not been in the farm practice for quite sometime. nevertheless, from what you've described, it sure looks like a case of a lung infection (pneumonia).

normally, with a purchase of new animals into your farm, it is wise to determine the 'insurance' part, esp if the animals start dying the moment they arrive at your farm. who is going to responsible and whos going to pay for the loss. all these should be determined even BEFORE you buy the animals.

upon arrival, the animals are usually stressed and it is unwise to mix them straight away with your own stock. you should quarantine them and do the standard deworming, deticking etc that you should do. we are most worried that the new stocks are carrying disease (if ever). these i think the most basic thing you can do to reduce disease and mortality!

Dr csh · Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 425

When you say you bought some kids... how many are we talking about? How old were they? If you said you tried to force feed milk, I would assume they are quite young.

Did the kids develop fever? if so what was the temperature? DId they show any neurological signs?

Do you know what injection/s did they give?

To answer your questions
1) It is possible that the kids were sick before you bought them? I think you mentioned that you saw them having nasal discharge and coughing and pointed them out to the breeder. So if they had the signs before transport I guess there is no doubt right?

2) Possible? yes. Definitive? No. I must admit that it would be the most likely diagnosis but there are many causes of pneumonia. A post mortem, culture and histopathology would be helpful to make a definitive diagnosis if that is what you want.

3) Well, the first thing is DO NOT PURCHASE SICK ANIMALS. The breeder told you it would clear up after a few days... but if I were you, I would wait until the disease was really cleared before buying them and definitely do not transport them to your farm while they are still sick. Also I suspect that there were too many stressor for the kids. They were probably weaned, regrouped, transported, all within a very short period of time and combined with possible heat stress, diet change, that can push them over the edge and get sick. I would suggest spreading out stressful events. Also, you could give metaphylactic antibiotic and thiamine before transport.

HABBHI Agrofarm · Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 3

Dear Docs,

Thanks for the reply.

1. I must admit that i have overlooked the part on the responsibilities and compensation should the kids died on the way or due to disease from the breeder farm. Will pay more attention on this next time.

2. Upon arrival, the kids were quarantined for deworming, deticking and for them to settle down. We tried to minimise the stress as much as we could. However I noticed that the way the workers handled the kid was a bit rough., shouting and shoooing and scaring the poor kids. Man! sometimes they just would not want to listen to you.

3. The kids are about 3-4 months old and there were about 15 of them (plus 22 of the age around 6-7 months). The breeder said they do not need milk anymore. However when the people from JPH came to visit, they reckoned that some of them still need to be fed with milk. So, we bought baby milk (for human 3 months old human baby) and some bottles to feed them.

4. We did not checked the temperature using thermometer. What is the normal temperature for goat? Is the normal temperature differs from buck to doe to kids, male and female etc. Is there any where else besides the anus where you can check the temperature from?

5. We do not know what kind of vaccination given by the JPH. Will check again with them.

6. I agree with you that probably it had started at the breeder's farm but it got worse due to the stress factors. But I wonder why JPH did not want to do the post postmortem and even flat out refused to issue us any letter confirming the cause of death of those kids.

7. Metaphylactic antibiotic and thiamine, are they an anti stress?

8. It has been a great learning curve for me. A costly one. Will never again buy sick animal ,does not matter what the seller says.

Really ppreciate the advise and help given to me.

May those kids rest in peace.

Dr HanMRCVS · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 557 Location: Johor Bahru

i think you should consider getting a consultant veterinarian to just drop by your farm once a month (or something like that) in order that he or she may be able to advice you on matters regarding the health of your stock. Not only that he or she may be able to help you collect and digest hard datas of your stock that you may understand your stocks better but he or she may be able to help you maximise the potential of your farm!

But do ask around for an experienced vet, as you are looking for one well versed in animal husbandry and able to give you good advice. btw, how long have been involved in livestock farming?

HABBHI Agrofarm · Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 3

dear doc,

Our family been involved in livestock farming for many years (since as far as I can remember). But it has never been intensive and commercialize.

We thought we could do some good with breeding goat for meat and breed and started this intensive goat farming about 7 months ago. We now have about 70 goats (3 bucks, around 30 does and the rest are kids).

It's the first time we bought kids. and learned that they come with different challenges.

Goat Health wise, I think we depended too much on the JPH. There were times when we could not get them to come to have a look at the goats. So, we thought we sent one of us for the training. At least we have someone with the basic knowledge of looking after the goat.

We will look for alternative now. Might be a good idea to develop a relationship with vet in private practice and engage their services. If anyone knows any good vet who has got some experience with goat breeding in Batu Pahat or Pontian (Johor), please recomend it to us. We wud love to have a vet friend around.

Dr HanMRCVS · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 557 Location: Johor Bahru

yup, the challenges of intensive farming can be great, but not impossible to overcome. i think that most neglected part is the health and hence production where owners are unable to 'understand' their farm, in terms of which part of the production they are right on track, and which part of the production they are losing money.

But i still believe we can balance economic profit and good animal husbandry practice nonetheless.

hardcore _breeder_V2 · Joined: 14 Aug 2007 Posts: 3 Location: All Area

my opinion..

I recently bought some kids and transported them from Alor Gajah to Batu Pahat. I observed that some of them were having running nose and were also coughing. When I pointed that to the breeder, he said that it was only a minor thing and it will cure in few days.

-lack of awareness..

After about 2 days the same symptoms were still observed. Furthermore 2 of the kids became weak, could not walk, started isolating themselves and stopped eating. We tried to force feed them with milk but to not much success. We called JPH and they came to have a look and gave injection to some including the 2.

-stress..when arrived at your farm..let them exercise first dont isolated them first instantly..

Unfortunately the 2 died on the 3rd days. and 2 other kids started exhibiting the same symptom. We again called JPH to conduct post postmortem to find out the cause of death. They came but did not conduct the post postmortem. Instead they gave more injections to the kids. The other 2 died the next day.

-"kembung"....

When we asked the JPH guy, we were told it is maybe due to change of environment and food.

-not impossible..many cause of goat diesease/sickness came from enviroment and food..

My question:

1. I wonder is it possible that this problem could have started from the farm where we collected the kids from?

-its depend on the situation u get the kids..like im saying before...awareness..

2. I have read some article about pneumonia and some of the symptoms matched the ones exhibited by the kids. Is it possible that it was pneumonia?

-no comment

3. What could have been done differently so that the kids would have had better chance of surviving?

-only can get fom some of otai2 in goat livestock.."lain orang lain caranya"..

I would appreciate comment and advise on this unpleasant experience of mine.

Kindest regards,