Malaysia Veterinary Forum (Archive)

yagami · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 8

hello there...

i'm a student and i am doing my assignment based on the livestocks industry.

can i anyone tell me what is the factors and method of selection that being used in selecting the livestocks types(baka) ?

i'm sorry i'm not gramatically correct, but in malays the title say...'apakah faktor-faktor dan kaedah pemilihan baka ternakan?'

hopefully , all the expert here can give their honest opinion or any reference that i can refer to about this topic..

p/s..cattle production is most welcome...but other than that is highly appreciated.... :)

chinginy · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 13

Dear student,
Have you done your own little research on the topic before posting the questions??? Please do some groundwork and let people know how much progress you have made!! And I strongly believe many will be more than able to assist you later.

Dr Dunker · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 466 Location: Puchong,Selangor

I dont think students should use these forum as a source of information for their assignments. Good old fashioned hard work with books is still a better bet. THERE IS NO SHORT CUTS!!! Sorry i am old fashioned.

Dr. TanDY · Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject:

If the lecturer also read this topic in the forum... so you know the result.. hehe

yagami · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 8

errm....i just found out about BCS....but i can't find any of the reference anywhere...

i think i've got some of the factors here...like pedigree, age and body weight and so on

thanks for the advice....all the 'experts' here are realllly quite HELPFUL........

p.s ..now i know why students don't go to this kind of forum

sorry for everything....

Dr Dunker · Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 466 Location: Puchong,Selangor

the problem is, one ask questions that one could get in the library or in the many many books in the vet library. while it is not wrong to ask questions, it is not right to expect to be spoon feed as well. With a queston like in your first post, one would expect u know NOTHING! it would be hard to explain everything when no one knows what u know or dont know. the second post was better since there was a direction in your question.
I must say that i am no large animal guy so the best person to look for would be those docs in the industry (dr CSH, DR ooi and many others). PErhaps they would even tell you where and what books to read to get your answers. Good luck.

Dr csh · Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 427

Well, the topic is just so broad I didn't even know where to begin. Did you mean from a genetic standpoint (eg. how traits are inherited?) or from a production standpoint (eg. 305 day milk)?, from a management perspective (calf birth weight)? or disease control (eg. mule foot, BLAD).

Factors for selection? Well, firstly you need to decide what trait you want, then try to figure out how and if you can do it. Most of the time, there will be trade offs for selecting a particular trait. Therefore, you need to figure out how important is each trait to you. For example, in dairy studs, there is a score for milk production, milk components, calving ease scores, reproductive performance, legs, udder, etc. every single stud will have a score for each category. So, if you purchase straws of semen from them, you can select which bull you want based on which traits are more important to your needs.

Methods of selective breeding? well, you can test for certain genes and selected based on what you want. You will need some sophisticaed lab equipment and it only works for traits that are controlled by one for a small number of genes. Then you can go by pedigree testing. If the parents, grandparent, and greatgrandparents always produced offsprings of a certain trait, you can assume that the animal also has those genes. Then there is progeny testing. This is done quite extensively in dairy production. Bull studs farms will selected the best cows in the region based on production data and then make a contract to breed that cow with a suitable bull and buy the calf if it was a bull. Then collect semen from that bull and inseminate say 500 animals and see how the daughters of that bull perform and if they perform well enough, then they select the bull for semen production.

BCS is not what I would typically select for unless I was producing beef/meat. BCS is an indirect way of measuring other parameters such as daily weight gain, feed conversion ratio, etc. I'm not sure what you mean by there is no reference about BCS... if there are no references, how did you find out about it?

Pedigree I've explained and I agree. Age.... well, I don't think age is a trait that people bother selecting for. You can't inherit age so I am not sure where you are going with that one. Body weight... by itself it doesn't mean much. So many factors can affect body weight, feed, management, age, environment, that has nothing to the genetic potential of that animal. So if you want to use body weight you shouold look at daily weight gain on a certain feed (compared to some control which is same age, same, managed the same way, at the same time and on the same feed and the only difference is what you want to test).

I understand your frustrations but you need to ask questions in context. If i sat through all your classes and know what was thought and expected of the course, and what the professor is like, I would be able to answer your question better. For example, If the class you are taking is Dairy economic as a master of agricultural business administration, then you need solid numbers and exactly what you hope to achieve, the current, expected global situation and how that might affect the price of the commodity you are planning to produce, how much does improvement of each trait will cost you in terms of investment and how much anticipated losses/attrition, labour costs and put that against how much you stand to gain by the improved production gain. If the class you are taking is genomics and genetics, you are probably want to explore how the genes that control the trait is inherited, what is the inheritance rate, population genetic parameters, interaction between genes, location of the gene of which chromosome, genetic markers, etc.
The point is the way you presented the question disappointed us. You just asked us what the teacher asked you. the point in him/her asking you is to see if you know and the point of you answering is for you to learn. The point of you asking us without (seemingly) have done some sort of literature review on your part is seen by us as just plain laziness and what do we gain by answering your questions for you? Chinginy tried to tell you politely but your reply really disappointed me. I was hoping you would respond positively and I would really be much happier trying to lend you what little knowledge I have on the subject. Good luck in your assignment.

varanus · Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 472

I'm sure you can find all the info on the breeds and pedigree from the book. Can almost guarantee you can't find a reference stated "best breed for malaysia and guarantee become rich if you buy this breed".

The reason the lecturer gives you this topic is to make sure you read all the breed info, digest it and give you suggestion. Select one which will survive our climate, environment and performance. This is not a direct question like "name me 3 breed of dairy and the pro and cons about it."

You are trained in the university to think and make decision. Not to gulp down what ever given to you and vomit it out when some one ask for it. Also don't expect to be sppon fed like what is done in the primary and secondary school or tuitioncenter. Got to be independent.

One more thing is, this site is for the vet, vet student, pet lover to share their experience and knowledge. If you decided not to make friends here, try not to make enemies. It will make your life miserable. Bad karma too.

Dr. TanDY · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:47 pm Post subject:

varanus wrote: One more thing is, this site is for the vet, vet student, pet lover to share their experience and knowledge. If you decided not to make friends here, try not to make enemies. It will make your life miserable. Bad karma too.

Hey I like this one :-)

To yagami: There are many vet students joining the forum. Still many are just browsing. But they do know about this forum and make use of it. Some are also very active in the "student's round forum" and learn from the senior vets. You too can be an active member in the community, no hard feeling :wink:

yagami · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 8

thanks for everything...
anyway..some of you did tell the truth...
i am going to library..but library didn't have much reference about that ...(poor my college's library)
maybe the book was in limited numbers and the book had been grAB by another students...
never mind bout that....i think what my lecturer wants is just basic one that we must determine before deciding to involved in livestock industry...

i just found a website about selection in goat production....
maybe a little more ...what i mean some extra information from the experts here
that's what i want ...

sorry again!!..........

Dr csh · Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 427

Basic genetic selection in a farm?

Well, of course you need an example. so lets just say meat goats since you have some goat information. I will break it down by several factors. At the end of the day you need several things in order to do any sort of selection. You need good data of your animals. That is a lot of work weighing, grading, testing, etc. but without it you will not be able to distinguish the good from the bad and of course you will not be able to decide which animals to use. Then you need good animal identification. If you cannot tell animals apart, then of course you will not be able to tell which animals is which and keeping a record of pedigree might help as well. Anyway, here are some broad ideas.

1) Production traits. This includes carcass quality, muscle mass, daily weight gain, reproductive performance, etc. These qualities should be the primary focus of genetic selection for animal production. Without good production, it doesn't matter if you select for other traits, you will not make profits.

2) Health related traits such as good feet, resistance to parasites and diseases. In the past, these traits has taken a back seat but as production traits becomes more prevalent, then smaller, lesser factors become relatively more important so the focus and include these things. A very interesting genetic selection for parasite control is a FAMANCHA system created by small ruminant producers in south africa. I'm sure you will be able to get loads of good information from the internet and the concept and method of selection is very clever. check it out.

yagami · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 8

thank for every single information that all of you give here.....it's quite helpful....

latest update on my assignment... it seems that i have all the factors ...

but what i dont understand is in one of the factor is conformation of the cattle physical..

there a books saying that the best shape of cattle should fill this criteria :-

1) long, stabile and body side are slightly in
2)do not have extra chest in the cattle chest
3) do not have extra skin on the throat and around the flab
4)have strong muscle on the upper limb of the cattle body
5)have reached standard high on the shoulder point
6) muscle in the right position of each the cattle abdomen
7) maximum growth on the bum and on the cattle body between hip and rib.

now...my problems is the books doesn't state what is the reason behind all this criteria... i mean for example why must the cattle have long, stabile and body are slightly in?... i can't find about that in the books
i wondering if all of you here have any opinion on these things

any opinion for this matter?

Dr csh · Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 427

First you have to ask yourself who wrote that and what they are trying to achieve. From what I gather, they are selecting for beef breed in a temperate area.

I think you are focusing too much on details and not the concept. If you follow what other people say blindly you will be lost. You are missing the point of the question. You asked what are the factors and methods of selective breeding.... Not the traits. (unless you are no longer trying to address the question)

Long body is desireable in all meat animals. This is because the hind quater and trunk is where most of the expensive meat is and the longer the animal, the more meat you will get. So, if you are selecting for dairy cows, you don't care how long the animal is and in fact, you might want an animal that is not too long so that they fit in your stalls.

extra skin around the throat is called the dewlap and it helps with cooling the animal down if you don't have facilities to keep the cows cool, you need to select for traits that allow animals to adapt to the heat. It might or might not be desireable depending on your situation.

the rest are straight forward muscling traits and if you are producing beef of course you want all of that.

So, once again, you need to tell us what you want to produce (beef cattle? or goats?) because it makes all the difference. I'm sure you can find information on all the things you mentioned in your post if you look for it in meat science text books.

yagami · Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 8

actually cattle production is quite enough for me...

i know that i am focusing too much on details but that's what my lecturer want...i have see him personally to discuss about my assignment and that is what he told me to do more....

then again...i want to ask another question

in selection technique-fumble method...how we're going to know the compactness of the meat,smoothness and the uniform and elasticity of fat that is covered by hair?

is it by touching the cattle?...
or we just look and then we know the traits?

thanks for the information...
sorry for asking much more question
it's just so interesting ! :)

Dr csh · Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 427

Quote: actually cattle production is quite enough for me...

?So I take it Beef cattle????

Quote: in selection technique-fumble method...how we're going to know the compactness of the meat,smoothness and the uniform and elasticity of fat that is covered by hair?

I have no idea what fumble method is, why don't you enlighten us?
Compactness of meat? did you mean marbling????
Smoothness and uniform and elasticity of fat that is covered by hair??? what does that mean? What fat is covered by hair? My guess is that you are talking about specific carcass qualities which will be determined when you slaughter the animal and inspect the carcass.