Malaysia Veterinary Forum (Archive)

doremi · Joined: 03 Oct 2006 Posts: 12

Hello,

I bought a 4 months old Poodle and on the first day at home she was so actively
exploring new environment and even played with my children. The very next day we
took her to vet for medical examination. She was found to have ear mite
infection. Vet removed the hair inside the ear which was very painful to her and
cleaned them. Later she was clipped for cleanliness and she seemed to be whining
and afraid of the clippers.

One thing bothering me is after the vet visit, her behaviour seems to change.
Most of the time she would run away and hide in corners. She would still allow
us to feed her and pat her but after a while, she would just scramble and hide
in the corners.

I read that we should not praise her when she's doing this but would this be permanent behaviour after her scary incident with vet?

Also note that I don't blame the vet coz it's for our dog sake.

Dr Nat · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1834 Location: Klang Valley

Quote: I read that we should not praise her when she's doing this but would this be permanent behaviour after her scary incident with vet?
Yes, in many cases, pampering your dog when it is showing fear like this (or during thunderstorms) may only promote this type of behaviour. In her thinking, she is being "rewarded" for showing this type of behaviour.

You have to be patient with her. She needs time to overcome her fear and be confident again.

After that, what you could do, is to sometimes bring her to the vet (only for a friendly visit) and reward her everytime you go there. Then she'll begin to associate "rewards" with vet visits. Another thing you can do, if it is going to be a painful procedure, you can request that your dog be sedated or even anaesthesised for the procedure. It will cost you more, but then the dog will not feel the pain. But do remember to discuss with your vet first about the pros and cons of using anaesthesia.

doremi · Joined: 03 Oct 2006 Posts: 12

Very useful info.

Thanks Dr. Nat.

Very much appreciated.

I will wait for her to gain her confidence then follow your suggestion later.

varanus · Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 472

In my opinion, sedation or even general anaesthesia just for grooming is unacceptable unless the dog is very fierce. If the dog is very frighten, spend sometime with the dog will help a lot. When the dog is more familiar with the environment and vet, everything is easier.

Most of the professional groomer will not allow sedation while they are doing grooming. Especially under general anaesthesia, the dog has to lie down. The grooming is not balance. Furthermore some dogs drool, passing urine and stool upon recovering from the anaesthesia.

For grooming leave it to the professional. I mean professional groomer. Not many vets are trained as groomer and I can't say a vet can do a good job or bad job in grooming. But my advise is leave it to the professional.

I normally recommend my client to those grooming center who are very transparent in what they are doing. For example, full glass panel which you can see through and know what the groomers are doing, CCTV... If you observant enough, those groomer carries a lot of scar as a result from grooming the dog. They'd rather get biten than to put the animal under anaethesia. That's professional.

Dr kuljitgill · Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 44 Location: Penang, Malaysia

varanus wrote: In my opinion, sedation or even general anaesthesia just for grooming is unacceptable unless the dog is very fierce. If the dog is very frighten, spend sometime with the dog will help a lot. When the dog is more familiar with the environment and vet, everything is easier.

Most of the professional groomer will not allow sedation while they are doing grooming. Especially under general anaesthesia, the dog has to lie down. The grooming is not balance. Furthermore some dogs drool, passing urine and stool upon recovering from the anaesthesia.

For grooming leave it to the professional. I mean professional groomer. Not many vets are trained as groomer and I can't say a vet can do a good job or bad job in grooming. But my advise is leave it to the professional.

I normally recommend my client to those grooming center who are very transparent in what they are doing. For example, full glass panel which you can see through and know what the groomers are doing, CCTV... If you observant enough, those groomer carries a lot of scar as a result from grooming the dog. They'd rather get biten than to put the animal under anaethesia. That's professional.

I dont know how professional it is to allow a dog to get so worked up that it retaliates by biting. Can you imagine the terror the dog goes through to make it snap at the hands of the groomer??
I agree that GA is probably carrying matters a little too far, but why not sedation.
Just think of the mental scars the poor dog carries at the mere sound of a clipper.........

varanus · Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 472

Some dogs don't like to be touched. Become aggressive. Some are just fear biter. Hence the scars. What I was trying to say is, a professional groomer would rather get biten than to opt for anaesthesia. I talked to some of the groomers. They'd refuse to work if the animal is given anaesthesia.

Sedation might be a good idea but not in every case and depending on what kind of sedation being used. For example, phenothiazine group, a common sedative/tranquilizer, can have a marked side effect if the medical history is unknown. Potential seizure in the patient, syncope because it slows the heart (bradycardia), tremendous reduction in blood pressure (peripheral vasodilation), and the more obvious thing is third eyelids prolapse, which is not a pleasant thing to be seen by the owner. The worse thing is if used in boxer.

Alpha 2 agonist, another common drug used, also carried a lot of undesired side effect like vomiting, reduction in blood pressure, pale... Unless you are using medetomidine and reverse with atipamezole,which is crazily expensive.

Other sedatives are also have similar effects on the animal if is very dangeroud if the medical history is unknown. So if sedation is opted, have to do it in place with veterinary services.

Sorry for the technical words. Just some example to highlight my points.

Dr kuljitgill · Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 44 Location: Penang, Malaysia

so maybe this is justification for veterinary practises to hire a groomer, or to train someone in the practise to groom SO THAT grooming can be done in an ideal environment/level of sedation etc

varanus · Joined: 12 Feb 2006 Posts: 472

Yup. That will be ideal. A vet complex with everything under a same roof. But other people need to survive as well, to feed their spouses, to live a reasonable comfortable lifestyle... In order to be able to stand in this field, they will find a way to finish their jobs, job well done most of the time. I know a groomer who got biten on her face while grooming a dog, sent to hospital, when she returned, the dog was properly groomer, no anaesthesia, no beating of the dog. That shows their dedication to their job.

p/s: I've nothing against grooming in veterinary practice nor use of sedative and anaesthesia in extreme case, but there are ways to avoid it.