Malaysia Veterinary Forum (Archive)

MOYSC · Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Posts: 4

Hi there,

Appreciate some help on this issue. My 2.5yr old Eng Cocker recently had recurrent sarcoptic mange infestation. Obvious signs were crusts found on parts of her ear tips and when crusts were removed using fingernail, that partcular spot will bleed.

Her previous encounter with mange was more than a year ago & was diagnosed by a mobile vet, Dr Suppiah (fr. Klang). The vet gave her a dose of Ivermectin injection and requested us to use taktic to bathe her for 2 weeks & followed by Malaseb bath for another 2-3 weeks to prevent bacterial attack on her mange wounds. No follow-up injections were given after the single dose since her mange condition was only localised to the tips of her ears and some remote parts of her body.

Recently, the same crusty appearance was found again at her ear tips. I've not seeked any consultation from any vet at the moment, as I'm not confident in using 'taktik' again on my dog. I understand it is very poisonous & can cause serious medical conditions if dosage was incorrect.
The problem is different vet seemed to prescribe entirely different taktic dosages.

eg. mobile vet had recommended 1 cap full taktik (30ml bottle cap) to be diluted with water in a 500 ml bottle, whereas other clinic vet had recommended 1 cap to 4 litres water (same cap size). Very huge difference in its dilution factor!

I do not know why it was such, but I certainly do not hope to put my dog through another episode of taktic application, as it causes my pet to become really drowsy, vommit, hair all shaved off & followed by poor appetite for at least 3~7 days - leading to a more stressful dog!

If there were other effective methods to combat sarcoptic mange or methods of prevention, pls share it here with me. Is Ivermectin injection alone sufficient to combat mange? How about Lime-sulphur dips & Benzol Benzoate (searched from internet articles) - any side effects, its effectiveness, can it be found in M'sia & mode of application & dilution factors?

Tq. :wink:

Dr HanMRCVS · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 566 Location: Johor Bahru

hi there moysc, i do understand your concern on the use of taktic on your dog esp if you have had such a bad experience using it. i personally do not stock, nor do i sell taktic in my practice is also because of this. the chances of overdosing is extremely high esp in the hands of common folks whose idea of a liter of water differs greatly from one day to another. (im not saying you are in this category, coz i once od-ed my dog when i was still a student). bad experience for me to.

as such, scientifically speaking, based on the life cycle of the parasite, we should re-treat positive cases of sarcoptic mange in 2 weeks, after the initial dose of ivermectin. as for lime sulfur and benzoyl shampoo, you mentioned, we do not regularly use them to treat mange in our practice. both can be found locally and their side effects are minimal. their usage will depend on the brand that you purchase and usually intructions are available on the bottle (as different brand got different dilution strenght) i cannot give you an exact dilution ratio (sorry!)

coming back to your concern of of crusty stuff over the tip of your eng. cocker. i still suggest your make an appoitment with your vet to confirm if your pet do suffer from a mange problem in the first place. the reason i say so is because, from our experience here, cockers seems to be over represented for keratinisation problem, which is a totally different problem from that of a mange infestation!. the most common signs of keratinisation problem would be the formation of crust (seborrhoea sicca or perhaps seborrhoea oleosa) that you mentioned. in order to differentiate between all these, we vets, still have to examine the pets as per individual basis.

and needless to say, all their treatment modality differs...greatly. btw, what the name of your cocker spaniel?

Dr. TanDY · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject:

Dear MOYSC you can read more about mange topic at

http://vet.com.my/viewtopic.php?t=91&highlight=mange

MOYSC · Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Posts: 4

Dr HanMRCVS wrote: the chances of overdosing is extremely high esp in the hands of common folks

as such, scientifically speaking, based on the life cycle of the parasite, we should re-treat positive cases of sarcoptic mange in 2 weeks, after the initial dose of ivermectin.

coming back to your concern of of crusty stuff over the tip of your eng. cocker. i still suggest your make an appoitment with your vet to confirm if your pet do suffer from a mange problem in the first place. the reason i say so is because, from our experience here, cockers seems to be over represented for keratinisation problem,

and needless to say, all their treatment modality differs...greatly. btw, what the name of your cocker spaniel?

Tq for your clarifications. Just brought 2 of my dogs to Mayo clinic in Subang last night & initial microscopic investigation showed no signs of sarcoptic mange. However, the vet did indicate its signs & symptoms do looked like an onset of s.mange infestation. Only 2 small spots of crusty substance were found on the ear tips then.

Didn't contemplate further - gave her a dose of Ivermectin & will monitor her condition to see the need for another dose in 10 days. BTW, her name is Gienah Bree.

The other puppy of mine, named Agata was also physically checked & found no signs of mange, but instead ear mites problem. I've home treated her with Gel Otico for a week & yet the problem still persist. The vet had told me to stop treatment for 10 days & to continue again after that in order to kill the hatched mite eggs. She also had dandruff problem on her inner ear flaps. I was told to treat it with Malaseb once weekly until it subsides.

How to prevent ear mites & those dandruff on the skin? I've been using small amts of vinegar to clean my cockers' ears on a daily basis & yet it still happens. Blurr...

Meanwhile, what's the difference bet. Apple cider vinegar & distilled vinegar that we buy off the supermarket shelf? Are both equally functional as a natural cleaning agent? Any side effects?

Tq in anticipation.
Nina

Dr HanMRCVS · Joined: 07 Jun 2006 Posts: 566 Location: Johor Bahru

since im no cook, and cant cook to save my life, i really cannot tell you the difference those 2 vinegars that you've mentioned. however, vinegar (white) is usually used as a germicidal (bacteria and yeast). since they are basically acetic acid, they just change the environment the bacteria is living in and thus killing them. however they are not useful for ear mites.

some ear preparations have certain chemicals that kills the parasites as they come in contact with it. Im not too sure about gel otico (in therms if the ingredients) Some ointments do 'suffocate' the parasites and maybe perhaps that was the vets' idea for agatha? i do understand that some vets (like myself) try our best to resist chemicals for pets and use the most-less damaging way to heal.

malaseb is a really decent shampoo for general skin condition, and i dispense truck loads of them here for our clients. however 1drawback is that its quite 'drying' to the skin.

pls excuse this question from me, is gienah bree your cocker or your vet? i know agatha is the other one right?

MOYSC · Joined: 25 Sep 2006 Posts: 4

Tq Dr Han & Dr Tan for your valuable info.

As to who is supposed to be Gienah Bree, so sorry to let you know that it is my dog, not my vet. :D

Yeap! No doubt Malaseb is a v.good product but it causes dry skin to flake (dandruff-like) if used weekly. I've been using it on Gienah since her 1st mange attack & it had successfully proven to prevent secondary infections.

Thx for the ear mite info. I use vinegar for our dogs daily ear cleaning routine. I hope its ok, as I don't use those ear oxides bought off the shelf. Prefer natural remedies as much as possible. :wink:

Dr HanMRCVS wrote: since im no cook, and cant cook to save my life, i really cannot tell you the difference those 2 vinegars that you've mentioned. however, vinegar (white) is usually used as a germicidal (bacteria and yeast). since they are basically acetic acid, they just change the environment the bacteria is living in and thus killing them. however they are not useful for ear mites.

some ear preparations have certain chemicals that kills the parasites as they come in contact with it. Im not too sure about gel otico (in therms if the ingredients) Some ointments do 'suffocate' the parasites and maybe perhaps that was the vets' idea for agatha? i do understand that some vets (like myself) try our best to resist chemicals for pets and use the most-less damaging way to heal.

malaseb is a really decent shampoo for general skin condition, and i dispense truck loads of them here for our clients. however 1drawback is that its quite 'drying' to the skin.

pls excuse this question from me, is gienah bree your cocker or your vet? i know agatha is the other one right?

Dr Nat · Joined: 07 Dec 2005 Posts: 1834 Location: Klang Valley

The difference between white vinegar and apple cider vinegar (or other types of vinegar), is just the way it was distilled. Apple cider vinegar, comes from apples, whilst white vinegar is made from pure alcohol (so it doesn't have any 'flavour'). Both should have acetic acid, which is the thing you want as the disinfectant - though may be in variable concentrations.

I wouldn't use vinegar to clean my dogs ear, or use it to clean any parts routinely. Although it may get rid of bacteria, using it frequently may also get rid of our good bacteria on the skin (normal flora), thus making that area more susceptible to more pathogenic organisms. Peroxides for cleaning ear is also a little harsh, in my opinion. I'd rather use oil based ear cleaners, or those that are alcohol-free.

Dandruff on the dogs may not necessarily mean its dry skin. Usually dry skin would result more in it being without its natural oil. The fur would look like it has lost its 'shine'. Dandruff on the other hand, may be caused by other means too.

Btw, Gienah Bree is a very unique name. Will be hard to get mad at a dog with that name. Try scolding it GIIEEEEENAAAHH BREEEEE! Hehe..